Writer Spotlight: Rhonda Gowler Greene

Junior year, Miami Florida, the 3 P's,

TV interview, and godmother: prolific writer Rhonda Gowler Greene 

Charlie Barshaw coordinates our regular Writer Spotlight feature and interviews writers of SCBWI-MI. In this piece, meet Rhonda Gowler Greene, a picture book pro who has authored dozens of titles.

 

Junior year, high school

Uprooting from your life and home and friends right before your Senior year in high school had to be frustrating and lonely. Yet you would go on to college there and finish summa cum laude and meet your future-husband. You turned a sad, unsettling challenge into positive life experience. How?

My dad took a new job in northern Kentucky when I was 16. We (mom, dad, older brother, me) had always lived in Illinois. I did NOT want to move. I was active in band (1st chair oboe), National Honor Society (treasurer), Girls’ Athletic Assoc., etc. When we drove off, I left a boyfriend standing in the front yard. During the entire 5-hour drive to KY (Florence), I cried.

My family soon got involved in a church where I met my future husband, Gary. I kept my grades up in my new school, went to college one year (Georgetown in KY), then got married. (Gary had just graduated from UK.) I transferred to NKU, graduated, then got an elementary learning disabilities teaching job.

Things worked out, I think, because I had my heart set on 4 goals- college, teach, get married, have kids. My goals were the same no matter where I lived. In high school, I worried- HOW would I fit it all in?! Then, I did it within 14 years (and 4 kids to boot– boy, boy, girl, boy in 7 years). Back then, a 5th goal never entered my head- How would I write children’s books too? I’m so happy that’s what I’m doing now!

You went all in on education. You earned summa cum laude for your elementary reading disabilities training, and earned a Master’s at Xavier for Media. Why leave Education when you were obviously so good at it?

I enjoyed teaching and especially helping kids who had trouble learning to read, but I wanted to be home with my own kids when they were young. I didn’t want any regrets about missing their first steps, first words, etc. Gary had a good job, so I was lucky and didn’t need to work outside the home.

My Master’s is in Educational Media. I switched gears to become a school librarian. But by the time all my kids were in school, I got serious about writing and getting published. I was submitting stories and getting good comments from editors, so I pursued my passion of writing instead of becoming a school librarian/media specialist.

You read a lot of books to your kids. I suspect, even in those early days, your bookshelves were starting to fill up. You mentioned favorite authors of yours that I was unfamiliar with: (Joyce Sidman, Mary Ann Hoberman and Alice Schertle) Why were their works so important to you?

fave books

Yes, I read and read and read to my kids! And, yes, my bookshelves were starting to overflow.

I consider these authors some of the best children’s poets. They’re masters at playing with words. I did read Mary Ann Hoberman’s A House is a House for Me to my kids, but most of the works by these 3 authors I studied later, after my kids were a bit older. I still study them. They’re like mentor texts. I think studying great kids’ poetry books helps with writing picture books because they’re so lyrical and tightly written.
Joyce Sidman’s Red Sings from Treetops is my favorite children’s poetry book. And the art? Gorgeous! Pamela Zagarenski is my favorite children’s book illustrator. Those crowns and wheels she puts in her art fascinate me!

Alice Schertle is known for her bestselling Little Blue Truck series. I really like her All You Need for a Snowman and All You Need for a Beach too. They’re perfectly written.

That magnificent home library you speak of; do you winnow down the books periodically, or just add more bookshelves?

For a long time, I’d just add more shelves, but I have been winnowing. I’ve donated books to my local library. Too, I give books to my four young grandkids (though their houses are also filled to the brim with books!) Last year, I discovered Bookstock, which supports literacy programs in the metro Detroit area. I’ve given boxes of books to them and plan to give more.

I just re-read the excellent book The Gentle Art of Swedish Death Cleaning. It motivates me to sort through all my books, papers, etc. so my kids won’t have to. The process is slow-going, though, because I’d rather be reading or writing!

Colmar, France Christmas market

Where have you traveled? Where do you still want to go?

Gary and I have been fortunate to travel quite a bit, mostly in Europe. When our kids were growing up, Gary traveled overseas A LOT for work. (He was head of international tax for Guardian Industries, which makes glass for buildings all over the world. We moved to MI in 1983, when he started working for Guardian.) I told him when empty nest rolled around, I wanted to join him on trips. So, we did that for several years, usually every fall near our anniversary. He’d fly to Europe for business, then I’d fly over a few days later. We continued making a fall trip even after he retired.

Gary’s been to more countries than I have, and ones all over the world. I’ve been to 19 European countries. Covid put a halt to our trips though.

This October 5th is our 50th wedding anniversary. (Hard to believe!) We’re planning a celebration trip a bit closer to home, in Canada. I looked up what city is most European in North America. Quebec City. Maybe it will feel like we’re in Europe!

 Hill Top- Beatrix Potter home,
Lake District, England

I’d like to re-visit places. I especially love The Netherlands, Ireland, England, Switzerland (Alps), and Austria. Portugal is pretty cool too! I LOVE cathedrals, castles, classical music concerts (in Vienna), and European Christmas markets. If you ever get the chance to go to European Christmas markets, DO! They. Are. Amazing.

You’ve got lots of school visit experience. Do you remember your first visit ever?

I do. I was kind of nervous, but it went great! It was in March, 1998, at Elwell Elementary in Belleville, Michigan. I did 2 large-group sessions in the gym. Some teachers remarked afterward they were surprised it was my first time. They thought the presentations went really well. I think the principal got my name from a newspaper article the previous fall announcing my first 2 books. A few years later, I was booked there again.

How far have you traveled for a school visit?

Miami, FL, 2015. My NO PIRATES ALLOWED! SAID LIBRARY LOU was nominated for reading awards in 4 states – FL, NE, KS, and AR. I was contacted to speak that year in FL and NE. I kind of lump those trips together because they were for my pirate book, both pretty far, and the same year. Once booked to speak, I emailed lots of schools saying I’d be in their state and asked if there was interest in an author visit. I got several responses, which led to a week of school visits in both FL and NE. Gary flew with me. We traveled all over both states and met SO many wonderful people! I presented 19x in FL and 17x in NE. Phew!

The visit in Miami was at the only Pre-K/K school where I presented in FL. The others were at elementary schools. It was KLA Academy-Brickall, a private Reggio Emilia Approach school. I was given a tour. Wow, it was incredible! I’d never seen a school quite like it. I presented to classes, then signed stacks of my pirate book.

Too, just want to mention a 2012 visit… It was where I taught- Goodridge Elementary in Hebron, KY (just south of Cincinnati). That was special!

I travel with Ruth on school visits, and it’s a lot of work for me and her. Do you usually visit schools alone, or do you have a support group?

Northville, MI school visit

For 20 years, I visited schools by myself. I never had a support group, but I do have a great support guy now. 😊 Gary’s retired, so he goes with me. He’s a BIG help! I take lots of things to schools! He unloads/loads our car and gets my powerpoint set up. Sometimes I wonder how I used to do it all myself.

A few times when going alone, I had to drive through really bad snowstorms to get to and from schools. Scary! I like having Gary with me now!

What are some of your favorite topics to present to an audience?

How I get ideas

How very hard it is to get published

So many rejections

Miami, KLA Academy- Brickall

Don’t give up

How a picture book is made - idea to hard copy

Mentor texts

Good writing

You had two books accepted for publication before you landed an agent. How were you able to sell your own manuscripts?

With persistence. I did my homework and researched regarding what children’s books certain publishers were publishing. I also researched which editors worked at certain houses. I used 2 resources (no Internet then)- the annual Children’s Writer’s & Illustrator’s Market and the lists of editors and agents SCBWI provided. Too, I read and read picture books and compared my writing to them. I started submitting stories. And accumulating rejections.

At first, I was sending my stories to the top editors. Then, I realized the editors listed ‘lower,’ like assistant or associate, were looking to move up. After my story BARNYARD SONG had been rejected 6x, I submitted it to an assistant editor at Simon & Schuster/Atheneum, Ana Cerro. She read it from the slush pile, asked for a revision, I revised, and she bought it! My first sale! She also bought 2 more stories within the next few years. (BARNYARD SONG came out in 1997. In 2004, it won the first-ever Michigan Reads One State One Children’s Book award.)

My second story that sold, WHEN A LINE BENDS…A SHAPE BEGINS, was one of my hardest to sell. In various revisions, it was turned down 23x! I kept getting good comments and requests for revisions. I’d revise and revise for specific editors, then they’d reject it. Finally—it sold to Houghton Mifflin (editor Margaret Raymo), 3 months after I sold BARNYARD SONG.

Technically, I sold 3 manuscripts on my own. My third was THE STABLE WHERE JESUS WAS BORN (released 1999, still in print). It was rejected 18x in various revisions. I was mostly submitting it to religious houses, but I tried Ana Cerro at S&S. She asked for a major revision, which I did. Too, by then I was querying agents. 

MI Reads event, Brighton Library, holding a goat

One day when I got home from getting groceries, I had 2 phone messages. The first was Ana saying she wanted to buy STABLE. The second was Marilyn Marlow at Curtis Brown saying she’d take me on as a client. That was a happy-dance day! Marilyn negotiated my STABLE contract.

You had 220 rejections in three and a half years before you sold your first stories. You mention the 3 Ps (Passion, Perseverance and Patience). You must have had a boatload of each to keep going. How did you keep going?

What kept me going was encouraging notes on my manuscripts from editors. They’d often say maybe a particular story didn’t fit their list, but they liked my writing and would I send something else. For my SHAPE manuscript, one time I got a 2-page editorial letter suggesting revisions, but with no guarantee to buy it (R&R- Revise and Resubmit). I worked SO hard and did all the revisions. It was rejected. But my manuscript was stronger.

If I’m ever asked to revise, I do. At that point, I have the attention of an editor! It still happens to me a lot—revise, then rejection. But I always have hope and do an editor’s requested revisions. My revised manuscript will then sometimes sell to a different editor down the road. 

SUPERGRAN book launch, 2023

That’s what happened with SUPERGRAN (2023). An editor at Chronicle said she’d look at my story again if I did a major revision. She gave suggestions. I did all the revisions. But then she left publishing altogether. Eventually, I sold that stronger revised manuscript to Sleeping Bear Press.

You received a minor in music/piano. Do you till play? Does your love of music ever spill over into your love of books?

I do still play, but just for enjoyment. Yes, for sure, my love of music spills over. In 2021, Little Bee published my THIS MAGICAL, MUSICAL NIGHT, about a night at the symphony. I got the idea during a DSO concert. I worked crazy hard on it, for months, trying to get every word just right. I even wove some Italian musical terms into the text.

One of my absolute favorite picture books is Zin! Zin! Zin! A Violin (1995) by Lloyd Moss. School Library Journal gave my book a starred review and compared it to Zin! (… “a 21st-century update of Lloyd Moss’s virtuoso Zin! Zin! Zin! A Violin, this really is a magical, musical book” ...). WOW, that meant so much to me! And they named it a Best Book of 2021. 

Too, Kirkus gave it a star. I feel like my writing in it is some of my best. Of course, James Rey Sanchez’s bright, bold art adds much to the success of the book too!

After my editor (Brett Duquette) bought it, he shared that he’s a NY Philharmonic season ticket holder. The story was rejected a few times, but in the end, I think it was matched with the perfect editor! It’s also been translated into French. Recently, Brett emailed saying the book is being published in a low-cost edition for Bernie’s Book Bank, a non-profit literacy organization based in Chicago. Bernie’s is giving out 20,000 free copies to families this October. Nice!

 ‘The Splash’ local TV interview

You were so composed for your TV interview, even more so than the young man asking the questions. Is your public speaking acumen from practice, or are you naturally composed in front of an audience?

In December 2016, the local West Bloomfield cable channel person asked me to come in for an interview for their segment ‘The Splash.’ I’m glad you thought I looked so composed. I was nervous! I tried to keep smiling. I think I got more relaxed the longer it went.

I don’t practice much for school visits. I’ve done so many, I think I could do one in my sleep! For keynotes for adults, I DO practice. I work and work on a talk for weeks, come up with 200-300 powerpoint slides, then practice aloud. And I time myself. 

The largest group I’ve spoken to was around 800 teachers. For that talk, I was asked to speak 70 minutes! What?! I practiced and PRACTICED. It went great! (And when I looked at the little clock in the podium? 70 minutes!) But, phew, I was glad when it was over. 

For the TV interview, I didn’t know what the questions would be, so I couldn’t practice. But I was glad when it was over too!

early cover

Ruth calls you the “Godmother” of her ELLIE McDOODLE DIARIES series. You were leading a peer critique group for her first conference, and you identified an essay she wrote about her father’s yearly military exercises in Grayling as a middle-grade novel. Eighteen months later, that’s what the essay became. Surely there are other authors who have benefitted from your kidlit expertise.

Wow, thank you for mentioning this. I wasn’t even aware I’m the ‘godmother’ of Ruth’s fantastic book series! I’m honored!

I hope I’ve helped other authors on their writing journeys. I’ve critiqued lots and lots of manuscripts over the years (and have had wonderful critiques on my own work from other children’s authors). Twenty years ago (yikes, time flies!), I was the picture book mentor for SCBWI-MI. My mentee was Shanda Trent. She’s a great writer! A couple of her stories I critiqued were Farmers’ Market Day and Giddy-Up Buckaroos!. We were thrilled when they sold and became books!

What’s next for Rhonda Gowler Greene?

I have 2 picture books under contract— IF YOU WANT TO SEE A NARWHAL (Little Brown, Fall 2026) and THE TRICK-OR-TREAT TRAIN (Bloomsbury, Fall 2027).

with agent, Elizabeth Harding, her office in NYC

I’m especially excited about NARWHAL (illustrator- Xin Li). Margaret Raymo is the editor. The last time she bought a manuscript from me was 1995! (WHEN A LINE BENDS… 1997; still in print) NARWHAL is the first story I’ve sold not in rhyme, though it’s written very lyrically. When I sent it to my agent, Elizabeth Harding (Curtis Brown), she said it was the best writing I’d ever done. Really?! I’ve been with her 21 years (was with Marilyn 7 before she passed away; Elizabeth was her assistant). That made me think maybe I shouldn’t have been writing in rhyme all this time! I love writing in rhyme though.

TRAIN is part of a 3-book contract I got in 2012 through my only manuscript auction. Exciting! Four publishers- Holt, Walker, Random House, Houghton Mifflin- were bidding (for a month!). I went with Walker. (They sent flowers!) BUT- not long after, Bloomsbury took over Walker and my editor, Emily Easton, lost her job. I didn’t know if my story would even be published.

I’ve had a big turnover of editors (6) at Bloomsbury. My contract states one of the books will be about a train. I’ve written a train story for 5 of those editors, each wanting something totally different. Then, what would usually happen? The editor would move to another house and abandon my story! 

Bloomsbury flowers after book auction

My latest Bloomsbury editor, Alex(andria) Borbollo, asked for an R&R of my Halloween train manuscript. I revised for 6 weeks, resubmitted, and 7 months later she accepted it. Hooray! The first book, PUSH! DIG! SCOOP! (title change from the original auction title of OVER BY THE DIRT PILE), was released in 2016. The second, LET’S GO ABC, THINGS THAT GO FROM A TO Z, came out in 2017. The contract and these 3 books will have been chugging along from 2012 to 2027—15 years!

I’m so grateful to still be selling manuscripts. My first 2 sales were 29 years ago! I think it’s even harder now to sell a story. Over the years, I’ve been published with 12 houses and worked with 20 editors. It’s been a wild ride. TRAIN will be my 33rd picture book. Currently, I have 6 more stories circulating at publishers. Fingers crossed!

I wish everyone the very best of luck in their writing, illustrating, and publishing journeys!

Website: rhondagowlergreene.com
Instagram: @rhondagowlergreene
X (Twitter): @rgowgreene
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