Rejections, Dino-Sport research, the worst one, and puppet arm: prolific picture book writer Lisa Wheeler
Charlie Barshaw coordinates our regular Writer Spotlight feature and interviews writers of SCBWI-MI. In this piece, meet writer, presenter, puppeteer Lisa Wheeler.
The “About” section of your website is what turns out to be
a harrowing story of No Thank Yous. 225, at least. Surely, or don’t call you
Shirley, you’ve turned some of those oft-rejected stories into real published
books?
The Young Lisa in the "About" story was nothing if not
tenacious. Did Young Lisa have 225 book ideas? Or did she send her one idea to
225 people?
I’ll answer both questions here, Charlie.
The 225 rejections were for many stories going out to
many publishers. Back then, my ideas came hard and heavy. I followed all of
them! I didn’t know what I was doing. I threw things at the wall to see what
would stick. In other words, I did everything wrong.
For instance, desperate to be published, I read an
interview where an editor was looking for foreign adoption stories. I decided
to write one, even though I knew nothing about adoption, let alone foreign
adoption. (Easy to see why my rejections piled up!)
I kept writing what I thought publishers wanted instead
of listening to the voices in my head.
One morning, as I got myself and the kids ready to go out
the door, I heard/saw this pirate sitting on my shoulder, whispering in my ear.
He told me his tale.
I had fifteen minutes before I had to leave for work. I
jotted down as much as I could. I thought about it all day and took notes.
Returning home, I went right back to it. I wrote a 350 word story about a
pirate who got lost. I submitted it to Jack and Jill Magazine and it was my
first sale!
What did I learn? Stop listening to what you think
editors want and start listening to yourself.
Unfortunately, I had a hard time taking my own advice and
it was another 3 1/2 years before I sold my first picture book.
BTW, I still get more rejections than acceptances. I
don’t keep count anymore.
How much do you have to get into the wrestling weeds when
wrestling (boarding, basketball, football) is the topic of your next
sport-in-series volume?
Good question! Each of the Dino-Sport books took
research. I am not the most athletic person. I know! Shocking isn’t it?
I spend about six month researching these books.
I start by reading. I buy or check out NF kids’ books on the sport or holiday. (We’ve
been doing Dino-Holidays for a few years now.) Non-fiction books are helpful in
choosing words that are commonly used in the sport. They also point out rules
and all the pertinent information I need to write a play-by-play.
I watch lots of YouTube videos of games. When I can, I attend
actual sporting events. (I prefer watching kids play, of course.)
I speak to experts on the topic. For instance, when
researching Dino-Hockey, my cousin’s hubby read through the manuscript
to make sure I got the hockey terms and play-by-play right. He’s played hockey
for well over 20 years and loves the book.
For Dino-Dancing, I sat in at a dance studio for three practices.
I asked the kids and instructors questions about different steps and styles of
dance.
I also research the sports online. My kids were swimmers,
but I couldn’t recall the exact order of events. When I researched it, I found
they were pretty similar across the board, but could change depending on the school,
ages of swimmers, and other factors.
Most recently, I got help from two SCBWI-MI members.
Lerner was adamant that I write Dino-Hanukkah as the sixth book in the
Dino-Holiday series. Buffy Silverman and
Lisa Rose were kind enough to answer a questionnaire about their own personal
traditions. I also sent one to my niece’s family, who are Jewish. Then, the
Lerner crew looked over my first draft, asked for revisions, and we all worked
together to make sure the book was sensitive and that I didn’t mess anything
up. It was totally a team effort!
Are all your book titles traditionally published?
Yes. When I started
out, self-publishing was expensive. (I
knew a gentleman who paid $40,000 to have his book published!) We didn’t have
that kind of money and I also knew that I really wanted to get that YES from a
publisher. So I persisted and guess what happened? As I continued writing and
wracking up rejections, my writing improved.
I’ve thought of trying out independent publishing for
some of the unsold titles sitting in my computer. But I am not a marketing
person and I get tired just thinking of all the work it would take to make the
book successful.
You've had lots of experience with school visits. Decades? Ruth and I
have shaved off some of the rough corners lately, but our Reading Month is still
grueling. Do you still travel nationwide?
I love the kids, and the performance aspect of school
visits, It’s also a great way to keep books in print.
But, I’ve cut back quite a bit. Due to health issues that
came on in the last two years, I don’t feel confident that I could handle more
than three days in a row. So I decided to limit how many schools I’ll do in a
month. That said, I have my first 3-days-in-a-row visit schedule for late Feb.
in Virginia. If I don’t feel that I can
give the same energy on day three as I do on day one, I may cut back again.
I imagine you have too many stories about travel and weather
and vehicle mishaps, but mostly getting there on time, and not leaving the
place worse than you found it? Care to share any?
Oh, the stories! Any author or illustrator who visits
schools or does conferences has stories. I’ve had too many wonderful
experiences to narrow it down to just one. Can I tell you about the worst one?
The school visit where I left crying?
Over fifteen years ago, I was hired by a principal to do
a half-day visit after lunch. When I booked it, I didn’t realize this was right
before Easter break. At arrival, I was
informed the principal had already left for vacation. No one seemed to know why
I was there. (The secretary was filling in for the school secretary who already
left for vacation, as well.) The vice-principal was called in. She ordered me
to go to the cafeteria. Yes, ordered! She must’ve been a drill sergeant in her
previous life. (More on this later in story.)
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| Infant Lisa and Mom |
In the very tiny cafeteria, the custodian mopped the
floor. She kindly asked me where I would like to set up so she could clean that
spot first. I thanked her and she replied, “The last author gave me a free book
for helping.” I had no books with me! I mumbled, “That was very kind of them.”
Awkward!
The first group went okay. It was lower el and although
they were a bit wiggly, nothing memorable happened. Then came upper el. I knew
something was off right away because no one was telling the kids where to sit.
A group of rowdy 3rd grade boys were all together in the front row,
pushing and shoving each other. I asked them who their teacher was. They said,
“We have a sub.” I asked sub to split up the group. She only knew a few words
in English. Sooooo, I went to the drill sergeant.
“Can we
split up the group of boys in front row? They have a sub and. . .” Before I
could finish, she screamed at the boys, “This lady says you’ve been acting up!”
She’s pointing
at me! “If I hear one sound coming from this group, you’ll all get detention!”
Those kids hated me. I pushed through the program on
automatic pilot. I’m used to kids enjoying my schtick and giving out hugs, not
glaring at me from the front row. Plus, I felt bad for the students whose vice-principal was in the wrong profession.
Afterward, I stopped by the office and asked for my
check. You guessed it. No one could find it. It was six weeks and three
reminders before I got paid.
I called my husband from the car in tears. “You’re taking
me out to dinner!”
Years ago we met in person, maybe an MRA thing? You had a
white plastic getup like a karaoke belt and mic. Have you changed sound
equipment? Just curious about the tools you use for school visits.
It’s a black belt, Charlie. (I don’t mess around!) I’ve
been using this sound system since 2014 and have only had to replace it once.
It’s a Pyle-Pro 50 watt portable sound system with waist band and headset. It’s
a game changer! If you need to keep your hands free, the headset is terrific
and you won’t need to clip on the ineffective collar mics. I also purchased my
own clicker, to advance the Power Point.
Tell us about some of
your puppet’s stories, where they came from, their personalities and voices.
 |
In the Bubblegum photo I am holding Little Lisa.
She is me at the age of 6. |
I’ve always given ‘voices’ to babies and pets. When my
kids were small, they’d have full conversations and even arguments with our
beagle. I noticed that my youngest would forget that the dog wasn’t actually
speaking and her mom was.
When I decided that I would do school visits, I needed to
find my comfort zone. Puppets didn’t come to me immediately. But when Porcupining
came out, I knew I wanted to build a program around the book. I found an adorable
porcupine puppet and my husband made a small banjo for him. Cushion the
porcupine was my first attempt at using puppets.
I worried because I am not a
ventriloquist. But I realized that once the puppets start speaking, kids go
along with it. I’ve only had a few students yell out, “That’s you talking!” I
also realized I needed larger puppets because Cushion was small and hard to see
unless you were in the first few rows.
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The bear is Ol' Bear, star of Ugly Pie. He is Huge and yes, part of the puppet arm problem. Little Lisa is also heavy. |
An unfortunate side-effect of doing this for over twenty
years is that I have developed what I call “puppet arm’. I still use puppets,
but have to set them down more frequently, as my arm and shoulder start to
throb. It sucks getting older!
Ever considered writing a memoire: Why I Like to Write Books So Much?
Not really. I’m kind of private and don’t let many people
in. My daughter said I’m an extroverted- introvert because I can be social when
I have to be. But the real me likes being at home with the people I love and
trust most—including my dog!
When do you get to rest on your book legacy? Just say,
that’s enough writing, I’m going to retire? But does one retire from children’s book writing?
Never and nope. I look to friends who have passed like
Ann Tompert, Shirley Neitzel and Barbara Brooks Wallace. All were still writing
in their 80s and 90s. As long as I can write, I will.
You’ve got Dino Books, a series about sports and another about holidays. And your Ready to Read series for beginning readers. But then there’s your picture book collection. Nine standalone titles, including Seadogs, a kind of musical theater opera sea shanty in a book. What inspired you break the mold of picture books?
I actually have at least twenty-five standalone titles, Charlie. Before the Dino books, most of my books were one offs.
Seadogs is near and dear to my heart. I’ve always loved musicals. My mom had the record albums of a few of them and I grew up listening and dancing around the living room.
When I began writing Seadogs, I didn’t know that it was a musical. I was halfway through when I realized I wasn’t writing poems, I was writing songs.
When Mark Seigel added his amazing artwork, I swooned. It’s still one of my favorites and I dream of seeing it performed onstage one day. Since I don’t have a musical background, I don’t know how to make this happen.
Boogie Knights is another favorite. A rollicking tale full of puns and wordplay, it's a fun and funny picture book. But what's with People Share with People and People Don't Bite People? These seem to be message books. Your idea, or someone else's?
Boogie Knights came to me around Halloween when I’d been
reading Poe’s The Raven. That meter was a catalyst for the book’s
tempo. I also love puns and cracked myself up coming up with the knight’s
names.
I got the idea
for People Don’t Bite People after binge-watching season one of The Walking Dead, followed by a trip to the dentist.
As I sat in the chair staring at a
poster of a wide open mouth, the first lines came into my brain. “It’s good to bite a carrot. /It’s good to
bite a steak.? It’s bad to bite your sister.? She’s not a piece of cake.” I wanted it to be a fun book for parents to
enjoy as much as the kids. I cracked myself up writing some of the mildly
subversive lines.
When my agent sent it out, we had lots of interest and an
auction ensued. Simon & Schuster gave me a two-book deal and I wrote People Share With People. But, my wonderful editor left S&S just
as the books came out. So sadly, no more in the series. But I still chuckle
when I read them aloud. (Also, in the last ten years, I’ve had more luck
selling concept books than stories. So there’s that.)
How many of your
books are out-of-print? How do you handle rights reverting back to you? Do you
ever buy any titles when remaindered?
You’re testing
my braincells, Charlie. I think I had about 9 or 10 books go OP. (Most recently
the first manuscript I ever sold—One Dark Night—along with Ugly Pie.) In two cases I was able to get my rights back—Bubble Gum, Bubble Gum and The Christmas Boot. My
agent handled BGBG, and then the illustrator and I sold it to
Purple House Press. They’re a small press who re-print classics and books that
have had a strong run. The book has always been a favorite at school visits and
does well with the Preschool/Kdg kids.
The Christmas Boot was originally published by Mitten Press, who
were out of Ann Arbor, and illustrated by Michael Glenn Monroe. They went
out-of-business a few years after the book released. I asked for my rights to
the text back and they were very good about it. My agent re-sold the text to
Dial and it was re-illustrated by Jerry Pinkney.
I’d love to get Porcupining back, but it is still in print with Tumblebooks (digital) and as long
as they keep renewing their contract, that can’t happen.
I have bought
remaindered titles when I could. Lately, publishers print less and by the time
they decide to tell me the book is OP, there are no books to buy.
I hate when my
books go out-of-print. It’s the exact opposite feeling of release day.
What’s next for
Lisa Wheeler? Events? Different income streams? Is it possible, more books?
Thanks for
asking, Charlie. Other than schools, I have no events coming up. As for
different streams of income, I see nothing happening in that department either.
I, of course, have more Dino books coming out over the next few years. I’m in
talks with Carolrhoda/Lerner now about extending the Dino-Sport and Holiday to
a third Dino series. Keep an eye out for those.
But I also have
a stand-alone title coming out Fall 2025 with HarperCollins. David Soman will
illustrate it. It is tentatively titled, It Takes A Family To Serve.
That’s quite a lot of title, so my publisher may change it. I’m very excited to
share it with the world. I got the idea on Veteran’s Day 2020. I worked on the
book and sent it to my agent in 2021. So between the sell and the release,
you’ll notice lots of time. That is because there are lots of steps, including
finding the right illustrator. Of course, the wonderful David Soman has a
schedule to keep. Thus, the 2025 release.
I’m always
working on something. Whether that something sells or not is out of my hands. I
had to learn this lesson a long time ago and it is still true today. As
creators, we have to follow our stories, follow the art. That is what we can control. Once we send that baby out the door, we have to let it go.
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